[Solved] Should I recommend Debian to a friend who has no Linux experience?

[Enigma83]

So, I have a friend, who recently aquired a Dell gaming laptop. It came preinstalled with Windows 10, which he upgraded to Windows 11. In a recent conversation with him, he says he is tired of Windows' feeling of bloatedness, constant data collection, etc. He's in his late 40s, has heard of Linux, but never tried it. But he seems to be expressing interest in it as an alternative to Windows.

I told him he could dualboot Linux alongside Windows, or replace it entirely. He doesnt really play native PC games, mostly just older console games via emulators. I think a full migration to Linux would be no issue for him, since most console emulators have Linux versions too. As for the other common softwares he'd need (browser, media player, file manager, etc), Linux has many choices for all of these.

I told him to grab an ISO of any Linux distro that looks interesting, and do some research regarding installing it in VirtualBox. That way he could try the OS without making a committment. He's willing to learn, and doesnt mind figuring out how to do an install on his own. So far he's asked me for advice on which distros to try, I mentioned Debian but didnt explicitly recommend it, since I'm not sure if it's good for newbies. There are easier Debian-based distros he could start with, like Ubuntu or Mint. Or he could go for another common distro that isnt based on Debian, like Fedora.

[arzgi]

If you ask here, I guess you get biased answers I have used only Debian for many years, nowadays there is a graphical installer also, which works.

It might be your job to get the emulators work, I have no experience of running console games in a pc. Debian wiki is a good place to start, and you can ask here too, Often searching the forums helps also. Maybe those console game emulators have their own forums.

Lot of searching.

[Uptorn]

It is good that your friend has expressed his own substantial self interest in exploring linux, as I've found it to be the only indicator of long term success in assisting friends with taking up linux. I highlight the word "substantial" for a reason, as those who only express mild passing interest due to some grief about mac or windows, almost always double back after trying linux and end up forming a dislike of it.

Distribution choice I would say doesn't matter very much as long as it's not something obscure. I've generally started people off on Linux Mint. And if that works for them, then great!

It might be your job to get the emulators work, I have no experience of running console games in a pc. Debian wiki is a good place to start, and you can ask here too, Often searching the forums helps also. Maybe those console game emulators have their own forums.

Emulator packages on Debian have been hassle free, in my experience. Just an apt install and then fire up the emulator's GUI, open a ROM file and go.

[trawglodyte]

Debian is probably a little harder than some other Linux distros. I started doing Linux a little over a year ago, and a friend recommended Debian. I thought he was crazy, but it's really all the trying, failing, screwing up and starting over that taught me what I know now.

I would say some keys are leaving admin password blank in the installation setup, but giving your user a password so you get added to sudoers. It's very frustrating if you set admin password because you login as a user with no sudo and can't do anything, also can't login as "root" "administrater" or so forth even though you have the password.

You should also help him/her get his/her sources.list setup and show him/her on a mirror what repositories can be added and the "main contrib non-free non-free-firmware" subcategories. This was super-difficult for me until I finally just went to one of the mirrors and clicked around to see which packages were in which spot.

I would also tell him/her to get in the habit of using a text editor to make himself/herself notes. Such as terminal commands or recommended and suggested packages when they download something. It would also be cool to show them how to get Brave browser, Visual Studio Code or something by adding that company's repository. Or how to add a PPA.

I don't think it would be horrible to suggest triple-booting Windows/Debian/and Ubuntu either (assuming adequate disk space). Let your friend gravitate towards one or the other naturally.

While Ubuntu is a bit of an easier transition, nothing beats a clean, lean, and mean Debian install with exactly what you need and nothing you don't in my book! It's worth the effort.

Last suggestion, if your friend has an NVIDIA, please make sure they find good, clear instructions on installing the driver. It's a nightmare for a newb, I remember. The worst part is if you don't get it right on the first try it's hard to "undo" what you did before trying again.

[FreewheelinFrank]

Live USBs are an excellent way to play around with Linux. I've lost count of the number of distributions and DEs I've tried in this way.

[wizard10000]

Before Bookworm I wouldn't have recommended Debian to a noob, now I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it.

[PsychoHermit]

Greetings,

I would recommend Ubuntu to a total newb, they have the desktop tweaked to be useful to a total newb. Personally I like Debian testing with the Gnome desktop but you have to do some customization to make it usable. The Gnome shell extensions, dash to dock and the application menu make it usable.

Best of luck to your newb friend,

--glenn

[Fossy]

I was 62 there , now 73 , barely understood IT / ICT , when I showed Microsoft the door and adopted Linux as the operating system on our 4 daily driver laptops ( one on reservation for test purposes ) .

Albeit by trial and error , started with Linux Mint , a month or so with LMDE 4 , since Buster exclusively Debian GNU/Linux
Ubuntu has never been an option , fortunately , might as well have stayed with Windows then it certainly appears now referring to " snap " .

My rules of thumb were and still are :
One computer = one operating system .
At least 4GB RAM and only one SSD or NVMe .
Not always self-evident , try to pick up computers that have already proven their Debian likeability ( crappy BIOS / UEFI … et cetera ) .

Although it has cost me a pretty penny ( still 2 old desktops running Windows 10 , and two brand new laptops running Windows 11 in service ) ...
… Learning and peace of mind have taken their toll .

However, I have never regretted the investment ( cheaper and more difficult is, of course, also possible ) .

And to answer the OP question ;
YES , don't put any more time and energy into exploring various derivatives of Debian .
Indeed , especially now that we have this range of Live ISO’S at our disposal ;

https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/cu ... so-hybrid/

Can hardly go wrong anymore ?

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

[Uptorn]

I was 62 there , now 73 , barely understood IT / ICT , when I showed Microsoft the door and adopted Linux as the operating system on our 4 daily driver laptops ( one on reservation for test purposes ) .

Albeit by trial and error , started with Linux Mint , a month or so with LMDE 4 , since Buster exclusively Debian GNU/Linux

The best kind of approach. To examine things slow and steadily. Iterative refinement.

Ubuntu has never been an option , fortunately , might as well have stayed with Windows then it certainly appears now referring to " snap " .

My hope is that the containerizer plague stays confined to ubuntu. If Debian ever abandons sane package management, I'm out.

My rules of thumb were and still are :
One computer = one operating system .
At least 4GB RAM and only one SSD or NVMe .
Not always self-evident , try to pick up computers that have already proven their Debian likeability ( crappy BIOS / UEFI … et cetera ) .

Yes. Sending new users on the goose chase that is multiboot is a surefire way to get them to hate linux.

[CwF]

My hope is that the containerizer plague stays confined to ubuntu. If Debian ever abandons sane package management, I'm out.

There won't be anywhere to go. I think it involves Buffalo, a cliff, herd momentum...
I can't express enough the negative influence of snaps and flatpaks.

My rules of thumb were and still are :
One computer = one operating system .

Yes. Sending new users on the goose chase that is multiboot is a surefire way to get them to hate linux.

Absolutely. The point is often conflated among two points, one technical, one philosophical. I prefer focus, mastery, that'd be on the second point. Some situations may be only served by alternate configurations, but still...I violate the rule with a simple explanation. Being big box based instead of laptop based I often have more than 2 disk with OS's on a machine, however any run within any as a vm within that box and their roles are settled. Booting the secondary vm directly means something bad happened, and it is now the med kit.

TIP: when you upgrade a kernel in a vm with its own disk, and that OS is visible from the host OS's grub os-prober = you need to update the host grub!

On the OP point, maybe. If the friend is the type to care for things themselves, then yes. If they have a receipt from a professional for every bit of maintenance in their lives, no way. Debian is not a Consumer Oriented OS. Unfortunately, the latter greatly outnumbers the former.

[oswaldkelso]

The last thing wanted here or any other distro are disgruntled Windows users. We already have WSL, free-desktop bollox, and generally to much corporate interfering. Because of it even users asking why they can't put files on their desktop. (you can tell the ex Windows users by icons on the desktop.) Gnome removing them was the only good thing I can think about their desktop but that was more a fluky by product of their brainless interface not just plain common sense. If you want to see your files open the damn file manager, how hard can that be?

If they really want to learn please send him to Gentoo, Crux, or a BSD. Somewhere where they can learn and contribute back to the community, not somewhere where they end up just supporting RedHat clones. There's enough polluting going on with out adding to it.

His first post will be I can't get snaps or flatpaks to work, I'll put money on it. If by some miracle it's "I can't get this package to compile from source" I'll show my arse on Muchty high street.

[Bulkley]

Should I recommend Debian to a friend who has no Linux experience?

If you do you better be prepared to rescue him frequently.

[Enigma83]

I definitely wasnt expecting this many replies, although I got no email notifications, so I assumed noone had replied.

Anyway, he's currently running Debian with the KDE desktop, in VirtualBox. I installed it via the net installer ISO, with him watching, and me explaining every option and what was happening. He seemed to follow along fine. Once on the desktop he seemed content to explore on his own, asking very few questions. I pointed him to some Debian documentation webpages. He seems to be the type that will take offered info and follow up if he has enough interest in it.

I also suggested that he try installing Arch Linux, for a learning experience. They also have plenty of good documentation for people that are willing to read, it's hard to mess up badly if you read carefully and think things through.

In the end, it's his PC, so h can choose whatever he wants. I avoided explicitly recommending Ubuntu or Mint. But he is aware of them. They're both based on Debian, why not use the OG distro.

[peer]

if the hardware is supported by debian I cannot see why I would choose for Ubuntu or Mint in stead of debian.
When I switched from kubuntu to debian kde I was surprised that debian was just as easy as kubuntu.

You friend is allready experimenting with debian 12kde in virtualbox. If he is satisfied with this debian version I would first try a live iso and if it works install it.

[FreewheelinFrank]

I definitely wasnt expecting this many replies, although I got no email notifications, so I assumed noone had replied.

Was this gmail? There is currently suspicion that there is an issue with forum emails not getting through.

viewtopic.php?p=791645#p791645

[Enigma83]

I definitely wasnt expecting this many replies, although I got no email notifications, so I assumed noone had replied.

Was this gmail? There is currently suspicion that there is an issue with forum emails not getting through.

viewtopic.php?p=791645#p791645

Yes, I primarily use Gmail. I do have an alt email address hosted on a domain that I own, but that email address is primarily for business, not personal. I like to discretely compartmentalize things according to how I will use them. It's just easier for my scatterbrained self to focus when I do that.

When I registered at this forum, it took several hours for the activation email to arrive, at first I thought it would never come. But eventually, it did. However, I have received absolutely no email replies to any posts I've made. I think i need to check my user control panel settings to double check settings.

In any case, Gmail is the most used email provider worldwide, and Google's services downtime is nearly 0, so I think that for any forum having issues sending to Gmail, the issue lies squarely on that forum. It's not like we're dealing with a no name email provider that few use.

Edit: It seems that this forum disables most email notifications by default. On most other forums I post on, they are enabled by default. In this case, they were disabled. So that's my fault for assuming they would default to enabled. However, point about forums having issues sending to Gmail still stands.

Now I'll just refresh my email every so often, without explicitly accessing the forum homepage, to see if the enabled email notifications are working.

[FreewheelinFrank]

I definitely wasnt expecting this many replies, although I got no email notifications, so I assumed noone had replied.

Was this gmail? There is currently suspicion that there is an issue with forum emails not getting through.

viewtopic.php?p=791645#p791645

Yes, I primarily use Gmail. I do have an alt email address hosted on a domain that I own, but that email address is primarily for business, not personal. I like to discretely compartmentalize things according to how I will use them. It's just easier for my scatterbrained self to focus when I do that.

When I registered at this forum, it took several hours for the activation email to arrive, at first I thought it would never come. But eventually, it did. However, I have received absolutely no email replies to any posts I've made. I think i need to check my user control panel settings to double check settings.

In any case, Gmail is the most used email provider worldwide, and Google's services downtime is nearly 0, so I think that for any forum having issues sending to Gmail, the issue lies squarely on that forum. It's not like we're dealing with a no name email provider that few use.

Edit: It seems that this forum disables most email notifications by default. On most other forums I post on, they are enabled by default. In this case, they were disabled. So that's my fault for assuming they would default to enabled. However, point about forums having issues sending to Gmail still stands.

Now I'll just refresh my email every so often, without explicitly accessing the forum homepage, to see if the enabled email notifications are working.

OK. Please let us know if you get notifications from now on.

[Enigma83]

Was this gmail? There is currently suspicion that there is an issue with forum emails not getting through.

viewtopic.php?p=791645#p791645

Yes, I primarily use Gmail. I do have an alt email address hosted on a domain that I own, but that email address is primarily for business, not personal. I like to discretely compartmentalize things according to how I will use them. It's just easier for my scatterbrained self to focus when I do that.

When I registered at this forum, it took several hours for the activation email to arrive, at first I thought it would never come. But eventually, it did. However, I have received absolutely no email replies to any posts I've made. I think i need to check my user control panel settings to double check settings.

In any case, Gmail is the most used email provider worldwide, and Google's services downtime is nearly 0, so I think that for any forum having issues sending to Gmail, the issue lies squarely on that forum. It's not like we're dealing with a no name email provider that few use.

Edit: It seems that this forum disables most email notifications by default. On most other forums I post on, they are enabled by default. In this case, they were disabled. So that's my fault for assuming they would default to enabled. However, point about forums having issues sending to Gmail still stands.

Now I'll just refresh my email every so often, without explicitly accessing the forum homepage, to see if the enabled email notifications are working.

OK. Please let us know if you get notifications from now on.

Yes, notifications arrive now, and without any significant delay, no more than a min or so after you posted.

[Dude Guyman]

As much as I'd like to point every new user to Debian (I don't care for the middle-men), there are just too many things that require...figuring out. Like the install itself being "corrupted": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrRT4rmmoNQ
Then there are common things that won't work out of the box like user not in sudo, missing components like gvfs-backends (it's been a while) that will "break" stuff until you figure out what random thing is missing.

For a new person, I'd still have to point them at MX Linux, kind of a "pre-configured Debian".

[Enigma83]

I've decided to recommend Arch over Debian. I'd say it's harder for a newbie than most distros, and probably harder than Debian overall. If he can manage to install it and a desktop environment on his own, i'd venture to say he'll be fine, and will set himself on a path of learning.

And there is no way a newbie like him will manage to install it the first time around, without reading their wiki. Especially since their install is command line only. To me, that's an important point for him to experience, having to read beforehand so he will have a better understanding of what he's doing. There's no better way than hands on, down and dirty.