[Off-Topic] Computer monitors: What criterias affects eye strain?

[larienna]

I have bought a monitor recently (Samsung Odyssey G3 24"), and after 30 minutes of use, my eyes are in pain. I thought I did my research correctlybefore making a choice, but either I failed, or there is just no way to know, it's specific to the user. Normally, the monitors have those following criterias to consider:

Size: The size of the screen, I think at this point, it's a matter of needs and should have little impact on eye strain.

Curve: Is the screen flat or curved. People say curved screen could help since it follows the curve of the eye, but I have used flat monitors at works and on my laptop for years without any issues.

Refresh Rate: Most people here seems to agree that a refresh rate greater equal to 60 Hz is mandatory. My monitor is a 144Hz, so far so good. Some people say FreeSync makes the refresh rate vary over time and could be the cause of the strain, I tried to disable it and it did not improve. Can a refresh rate too high cause eye strain?

Response Time: I though that faster response time was also better, but I now have trouble finding evidence that it is true. Some say that smaller response time could create more strain on the eyes. The monitor above has an 1ms response time, I was aiming for something fast, because I thought it would help, but I could be wrong on this one. What should I aim for?

Panel Type: Some say that all panel type have eye strain issues. I heard a lot of people complaining about OLED in this regard. Personally, I am color blind, so I don't really care in having accurate colors. So I decided to aim for a VA monitor, on paper, it looked more interesting, but it could be one of the factor for my eye strain. Else, I am considering IPS.

At my job, I was using a TN monitor, but they stopped making those monitors. Else, I tried some IPS monitors, I could have had minor eye strain but not as much as my Samsung monitor.

I tried adjusting the brightness of my monitor, but some say reducing brightness increases flickering, therefore the eye strain. I tried the Eye care mode, and still had some issues. Some say that Samsung monitors are flickering by default, so the problem would be the brand.

So I am asking the question, what are the criterias I should really be looking for in order to minimize eye strain. This is the more important need as I don't care about vivid colors. I mostly program, do some graphic design, and play strategy games with my computer. So lot reading and writing.

If there is no possible adjustment, I'll have to return it.

[ruwolf]

And what about bias lighting, i.e. what is on the background, how dark/light is it?

[larienna]

I did not know about bias lighting, I though those leds were only there to look cool. Right now there is only a wall, but I am considering getting an office lamp I could use for bias lighting, on my face for zoom calls, or just lighting up my desk.

Still, I can use other monitors without bias lighting. Maybe new monitors requires this.

Sorry for the ranting, but those older monitors worked well, why upgrade the tech to something everybody have eye strain? I could cite the "If it's not broken, don't fix it" quote for this situation.

...

I have a spare office lamp, I'll try bias lighting it for my next test.

[steve_v]

those older monitors worked well, why upgrade the tech to something everybody have eye strain? I could cite the "If it's not broken, don't fix it" quote for this situation.

Because "bigger number better", and now that the refresh-rate war has moved into ludicrous territory the next on the list are peak luminosity and contrast ratio (often at the expense of flicker where LEDs are involved, because overdrive and PWM)... All of which can be contributing factors for eye-strain, although pinpointing the exact cause in any specific case is very much a "suck it and see" (no pun intended) personal thing.

[alienspy]

You say higher refresh rate leads to eye strain..? Wow, never heard about. Is it from personal experience or there is some research on that?

[steve_v]

You say higher refresh rate leads to eye strain..?

No, I was referring to luminosity, contrast, and backlight flicker. My phrasing probably wasn't ideal.

[alienspy]

I was referring to luminosity, contrast, and backlight flicker. My phrasing probably wasn't ideal.

Any advise on that?

[larienna]

Most people said that higher refresh rate is better. Or at least, higher than 75MHz is fine because the eye cannot se more than 60.

Your theory that boosting all other parameters increases flickering which cause eye strain could be true, as many people talked about flickering when referring to eye strain.

So I guess finding a monitor that does not flicker is the key, but apparently even flicker free monitors are not entirely flicker free.

I imagine finding a more modest monitors could be the solution, but I think it's better to know specific parameter that cases flickering since there is so many models on the market.

I tried testing the monitors in store, the problem is that they they display to you a video. Looking at a monitor like watching a video, is not the same thing as looking at a monitor that you are trying to read.

I tried bias light, it did not solve the problem, but it can help increase ambient light to increase the brightness of the screen.

There was also a way to adjust the response time on my monitor. They did not give specific values besides "standard", "faster", "fastest". I could not clearly evaluate the impact of the response time, because I can only measure it in amount of headache. I think standard was better than fastest.

[larienna]

I found more information about screen flickering, it's promotional material, but it's interesting:

https://www.benq.com/en-us/knowledge-ce ... nitor.html

https://www.viewsonic.com/library/tech/ ... ye-health/

[larienna]

That is so weird, there is test you can do with a mobile device to verify if your screen flickers. You film and take pictures of the screen. I tried it with 3 different screens

Old LG TV (2009): I don't see any flickering in camera, zooming on the pictures does not show lines.
Old HP laptop (2013): I see flickering, and there are clearly vertical lines in the pictures, no need to zoom in.
New Samsung monitor: I do not see flickering, if I zoom the pictures I can see a linear pattern, but it's not black lines.

Considering I have been using my HP laptop for all these years without any issues, it might not be flickering the problem.

I am back to square one I guess.

[debrecinay]

What DE are you using? Night Light (kde) or redshift filter out blue color for you.

[larienna]

I am currently using Mate with redshift on my laptop.

On my new computer where I tried the new monitor had KDE plasma (I wanted to give it a try) and was also using redshift.

I also found that there are some brand which offer Eye Care features, especially the "TÜV Rheinland Certification" which I'll have to take a better look to it. So far, ASUS and BENQ seems to comply with this standard.

I watched some monitors today, again not scientific measurement, but an ASUS Eye Care monitor seemed to create less Eye strain.

[larienna]

I went at best buy to look for monitors. It's just crazy, I tried to look at new OLED and QLED TV. It's very beautiful, but it takes about 15 seconds for the pain to start. So I am not going to buy a new TV any time soon.

Which made me think, is it possible to buy somewhere old tech monitors in new condition?

There are some websites like NewEgg that sell older computer parts, I imagine there is a website somewhere that does the same for monitor.

[CwF]

I went at best buy to look for monitors. It's just crazy, I tried to look at new OLED and QLED TV. It's very beautiful, but it takes about 15 seconds for the pain to start. So I am not going to buy a new TV any time soon.

I am bothered by ambient lighting more than any particular screen. I go for sunlight, LED's, or power sucking Halogens and Halids. Any florescence anywhere close will bug me. I'll bet you are bothered by the ambient lighting and not the screen itself. I could be wrong, but I think everything on AC power flickers, even the stove.

Which made me think, is it possible to buy somewhere old tech monitors in new condition?

I was concerned a few years ago about monitors since my video wall was assembled in 2007 with what is now considered 'dumb' TV's and used VGA where needed, or preferred. I eventually found a supply of 'Spectre' commercial displays that are dumb, have new connections types, return channel, mobile inputs, and VGA! A 1080 version is ~$150 and the 4k ~$200 in my chosen 43" size.

The 2007 Samsungs all still work. They have good sound which I don't use and weight 100 lbs. and were $1000 each. The Spectres don't have sound worth mentioning and weigh 10 lbs. They work fine and are not close to the quality of the ancient Samsungs. I kinda doubt much of anything is anymore.

I made my choice after talking to a few Hotel people who manage such things. If you get lucky with the timing maybe they have some being cycled out. Most used resellers get their inventory from such places. But I wouldn't 'try' to buy used. I got the recommendation of Spectre that I'd never heard of, decided on the model choices, found the sale listings, and waited. I ordered them from Walmart, retail outlets don't carry these, focusing only on the 'smart' versions. It took a year, literally, until I got them. They must make thousands and sell out in weeks or months outside the retail market. They're cheap enough to line the ceiling with them and go full holodeck...

[Augie77]

I have a Samsung LS24AG30 monitior, which is the 24 inch G30 gaming monitor, set at 120hz / 1920 x1080 and have no issues. I would suggest looking at:

Ambient lighting
Brightness / Contrast
Eye Saver Mode
House Hold LEDs lamps causing issues
Move monitor to onboard graphics if one exist

Might have dry eyes, seriously. Try Systane PF, or better yet, go to optometrist and get the Oasis Plus PF. This is a solution for dry eyes that is preservative free and has healthier ingredients than other products on the market. IMHO The preservative free stuff is better bought in packs of 30 vials for single use. Once you open a bottle, you generally have 90 days or less to use it all.

Seriously consider going to Ophthalmologist and have a comprehensive eye exam to include wandering eye and prismatic effect. Having an eye that wanders can cause a crap load of focus and eyestrain issues.

[larienna]

I know the recommendations on how to use the screen, including dry eyes, blinking, take pauses, etc. I even have the tendency too look a my keyboard while typing, which put my eyes off screen. But currently, with other monitors, I have no issues. Right now, I am using my laptop, and have those following specifications:

Contrast ratio: 300:1
Brightness: 200 nits
Pixel resolution: 1280 × 800; HD: 1366 × 768
Pixel configuration: RGB vertical stripe
Backlight: LED.

There is no mention of panel type like TN, VA, IPS. Maybe that was before those panel existed. The monitor I bought and tried had a 3000:1 contrast ratio with a brightness up to 250 nits. Not sure the contrast ratio could really matter. As for the brightness, it can always be adjusted.

I have a friend who is having Strabismus, she is my monitor eye strain detector. Still, I have not seen the monitor I want to buy in display. Not sure if I have mentioned this previously, this is my next choice:

https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product/be ... c/15748105

Thanks for the input so far.

[larienna]

We tested some monitor in store with my friend, and according to his eyes, anything with a refresh rate higher than 100 Hz will create eye strain.

So it goes against everything I read online that any 60+ Hz monitor will be fine. I guess we do not have all the same eyes, so we are not sensible to the same things.

Hope it helps other people. I'll buy my monitor and give it a try.

[CwF]

When you get in to the physics of it all we see there is no line where things occur but ranges. All the lights around us are flickering. AC fed through differing rectifiers in components have their own frequency. People have differing frequency, 15Hz+ that itself changes and can be differing within the field of view and per eye. Add all this up and there are harmonics and beats that happen in a range that defies exacting a generalization.
60Hz is good because it exceeds our perception rate, generally, and often theoretically matches ambient light flicker. Not sure about 50hz areas of the world? Once you go above it the issue can be the harmonics introduced.

I don't believe for a second that anyone can tell the difference in a single source of light between 100, 120, 144+ Hz. When we make it interactive in some way, maybe, but the sense is then not coming only from our eyes and this single light source.

If you have ever trained for peripheral view discretion you'd become aware of the range of 'sample rate' in our field of view. I see flicker at the edges of view much easier than straight on. Try it!

[larienna]

I did additional research as sometimes I still get eye strain. Linux seems to be a source of problems as some users reported not having issues in windows with the same hardware.

1. There seems to be something in the kernel starting from kernel 2.4, that is causing eye strain. I am not sure if it has been fixed in more recent kernels.

2. Graphic acceleration used by some desktop environment and browser could be a source of eye strain. It can be disabled in most browser, and compositing can be disabled in desktop environment.

Night warmer colors and low brightness always helps.

[Onsemeliot]

Did you consider e-ink screens for your reading/typing work? Those shouldn't have any flickering at all.