Debian Live Image (MATE) has KDE settings on it ... ?

[Omnimaxus]

Hello to everyone. I am exploring using Debian Bookworm as my daily driver. I love MATE. However, I am confused. I recently downloaded the live image with MATE preinstalled (debian-live-12.7.0-amd64-mate.iso). When I set about exploring the live environment, I saw "KDE Settings" under "Look and Feel." I clicked on it, and it showed an almost-blank screen for Plasma settings. I am including two pictures here. Is this normal? The non-live image I downloaded before (debian-12.7.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso) did not have this issue. What happens if I use this live image to install Debian? Will the KDE settings still show up? (Speaking of which, isn't MATE-Tweak supposed to be there instead of KDE Settings?) Is this a packaging mistake on Debian's part? Someone please advise. Although I have been distrohopping, I've been using Linux Mint and Zorin mostly for over 6 months, but feel like I'm ready to move on to something more closer to the CLI, and I'd like to switch over to Debian Bookworm. So to see this kind of thing gives me a bit of pause, and I just want a clean experience here. (And I hope I'm posting in the correct subforum.) Thanks very much.





(The photos I uploaded have a 30-day limit; hope someone can help before then.)

[Omnimaxus]

Follow-up:

I have been looking into this a bit more. It seems like this isn't supposed to be there. Yet it is.

The pictures don't lie. Why put KDE stuff in a MATE live image? So ... yeah. What now?

Will Debian pull the MATE image, and fix it accordingly? Or is the KDE stuff meant to be there?

[sunrat]

I just downloaded the package list for MATE live image - https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/cu ... o.packages . Indeed it contains the package systemsettings which is the KDE package, so it seems like an error.
I don't use MATE or live images so someone more familiar will have to chime in for more advice.

[Omnimaxus]

Thanks for checking and replying, @sunrat. I have already emailed the Debian CD team. I hope they fix this as soon as possible. It seems to be a glaring error; one that needs to be taken care of right away or soon in the future.

[Omnimaxus]

Follow-up: Anyone? Please help. Thanks.

[juribel]

I am running Bookworm with Xfce, installed from the Live ISO in German. Here, "KDE Systemeinstellungen" with Plasma settings is also present. I have installed several programs that use QT. Maybe the KDE settings come from these installations.

In a Virtual Machine, I have Bookworm with Xfce without any additional installations, and there are no KDE settings.

[bbbhltz]

There is a dependency for it somewhere. I know there is a way to do this and see why a package is installed and see the chain of dependencies, but my apt-foo is weak...

Code: Select all

$ sudo apt install live-task-mate --simulate | grep systemsettings

WARNING: apt does not have a stable CLI interface. Use with caution in scripts.

  squashfs-tools swath swath-data systemsettings t1-cyrillic t1-teams
  squashfs-tools swath swath-data systemsettings t1-cyrillic t1-teams
Inst systemsettings (4:5.27.5-2 Debian:12.7/stable [amd64])
Conf systemsettings (4:5.27.5-2 Debian:12.7/stable [amd64])

[Omnimaxus]

I am running Bookworm with Xfce, installed from the Live ISO in German. Here, "KDE Systemeinstellungen" with Plasma settings is also present. I have installed several programs that use QT. Maybe the KDE settings come from these installations.

In a Virtual Machine, I have Bookworm with Xfce without any additional installations, and there are no KDE settings.

Very interesting. I will try installing Debian MATE in a virtual machine, and see what happens to the KDE settings.

I don't understand, though. Why put KDE settings in a MATE install ISO? Doesn't make sense. Anyway, thanks.

[Omnimaxus]

There is a dependency for it somewhere. I know there is a way to do this and see why a package is installed and see the chain of dependencies, but my apt-foo is weak...

Code: Select all

$ sudo apt install live-task-mate --simulate | grep systemsettings

WARNING: apt does not have a stable CLI interface. Use with caution in scripts.

  squashfs-tools swath swath-data systemsettings t1-cyrillic t1-teams
  squashfs-tools swath swath-data systemsettings t1-cyrillic t1-teams
Inst systemsettings (4:5.27.5-2 Debian:12.7/stable [amd64])
Conf systemsettings (4:5.27.5-2 Debian:12.7/stable [amd64])

Thank you for replying. Appreciate it.

[fabien]

There is a dependency for it somewhere. I know there is a way to do this and see why a package is installed and see the chain of dependencies, but my apt-foo is weak...

live-task-mate Recommends calamares-settings-debian
calamares-settings-debian Depends calamares
calamares Depends libkf5parts5
libkf5parts5 Depends kio
kio Recommends systemsettings

This chain of dependencies was not the easiest to find.

[bbbhltz]

There is a dependency for it somewhere. I know there is a way to do this and see why a package is installed and see the chain of dependencies, but my apt-foo is weak...

live-task-mate Recommends calamares-settings-debian
calamares-settings-debian Depends calamares
calamares Depends libkf5parts5
libkf5parts5 Depends kio
kio Recommends systemsettings

This chain of dependencies was not the easiest to find.

Did you work this out by hand, or use debtree, apt-rdepends, or something like that?

[Omnimaxus]

Update:

Installed the live image on VirtualBox. Did see that the KDE settings thing did, in fact, disappear post-install. Have been pleasantly surprised with MATE on Debian Bookworm. Excellent. More stable and less buggy than MATE is on Linux Mint and Ubuntu. I just wish someone from the Debian team would jump in here and explain about the inclusion of KDE in a MATE image. I will continue experimenting and playing with MATE on Debian before deciding on what to do, but at this time, it's looking rather good. I like MATE; its functionality and the UI makes sense. If I go ahead and permanently install Debian on my main PC, I'll likely have more questions for folks on this forum (in the "beginners" subforum). Cheers.

[bbbhltz]

The KDE stuff is required for Calamares, which is the graphic installer.

Calamares is a C++ program. It uses the Qt libraries. It may use KDE Frameworks libraries. You will need those installed on your development system in order to work on Calamares.

https://github.com/calamares/calamares/ ... uide#build

So, not Debian but Calamares is the culprit.

[fabien]

Did you work this out by hand, or use debtree, apt-rdepends, or something like that?

There are indeed many possible ways, the tools chosen may depend on personal preferences but also on the complexity of the problem. debtree is probably a good choice. I know it but I don't use it because I find it difficult to read.

I first used my script why-pkg -Y systemsettings to check reverse dependencies but nothing immediately obvious was shown. It would be possible to backtrack through each reverse dependency but it would take time.

I then used why-pkg -r live-task-mate to check that systemsettings was a dependency (the script is well tested but it's still a good opportunity for me to check its accuracy). The dependency was confirmed but this option does not show dependency links, so I used why-pkg -p live-task-mate which is just a colorized output of apt-rdepends. Here again the result was not obvious enough.

So I uncommented DEBUGMODE="true" in why-pkg and ran why-pkg -nr live-task-mate again and found the dependency links.

Since you asked, I checked a more orthodox method:

Code: Select all

$> apt-get -o Debug::pkgDepCache::AutoInstall=1 -sV install live-task-mate
[...]
  Installing calamares-settings-debian:amd64 as Recommends of live-task-mate:amd64
    Installing calamares:amd64 as Depends of calamares-settings-debian:amd64
[...]
     Installing libkf5parts5:amd64 as Depends of calamares:amd64
[...]
        Installing kio:amd64 as Depends of libkf5parts5:amd64
[...]
          Installing systemsettings:amd64 as Recommends of kio:amd64

man 5 apt.conf for apt-get debug options.

[juribel]

I personally cannot see any problem at all with having some libraries or settings tools on my computer that I don't really need or use. So what! Might perhaps only be a problem if one's storage capacity is extremely limited, but in that case one would surely have other problems as well. In Germany we say "Frisst ja kein Brot" -- oh well, it doesn't eat away my bread