Installing Debian 12.6.0 on non-UEFI compatible PCs

[CapeGold]

I need install Debian 12.6.0 on a couple of PCs bearing Intel Core 2 Quad and Intel Core 2 Duo CPUs. both non UEFI compatible. When I boot from the flashpen bearing Debian-12.6.0-amd64-netinst.iso masterized by Rufus 4.5 the flashpen is recognized, the splashscreen showing the main menu appairs, but it doesn't work, and after some 20 seconds the installer starts authomatically with the speech synthetizer option and a text interface made of random characters that make it unreadable and useless.
Is it possible editing the configuration files of the installer so that the graphical installation interface, or even the textual one starts, instead of tha deprecable and poorly <speaking> interface?

[Aki]

Hello,

Have you verified the integrity of the Debian-12.6.0-amd64-netinst.iso ?

Have you used a different program to transfer the ISO image to the pendrive ?

Have you verified that the image on the usb pen matches the ISO file ?

[CapeGold]

Yes, I always verify the integrity of what I download.

Yes. I tried Rufus 4.5, both in ISO and in DD mode, Balena Etcher 1.18.11, the burning built-in command in Windows 10 Enterprise.

No. How can I do trat?

All the flashpens work fine on my laptop Compaq 15 Notebook, aged 2015, but UEFI compatible. None works on my older machines. As I wrote above the flashpen are recognized, the splashscreen appears but the menu doesn't work. The installer starts under speech synthetizer option.
I should like to learn how to edit the .iso file so that the graphic mode installer or at least the text mode installer starts instead of the speech synthetizer one.

Only the flashpen burned with Unetbootin works, but I know it's deprecated, so I wish to avoid using it.

[Aki]

Hello,

I need install Debian 12.6.0 on a couple of PCs bearing Intel Core 2 Quad and Intel Core 2 Duo CPUs. both non UEFI compatible.

Can you please provide a link/description of the manufacturer, model and full specifications of these computers ?

Are they equipped with a CD-ROM/DVD reader you can use to start the Debian Installer ?

[CapeGold]

Sure.

Motherboard GIGABYTE GA-EP43-UD3L Rev. 1.1
Award Modular BIOS v6.00PG Version f9 dd. 04/22/2010
Socket LGA 775
Processor Intel Core 2 Quad Q9400 2,66 GHz x4 (pc1)
Processor Intel Core 2 Duo E7500 2,9 GHz x 2 (pc2 and pc3)
RAM 8 GB (2 DIMM modules DDR2 800 MHz x 4 GB (pc1)
RAM 4 GB (2 DIMM modules DDR2 800 MHz x 2 GB (pc2 and pc3)
Graphic card NVidia GeForce 9800 GT (pc1)
Graphic card NVidia GeForce 9500 GT (pc2 and pc3)
Hard disk PNY C5900 480 GB SSD
Partition table MBR

All the PCs are equipper with CD/DVD unit, but the CDs bearing netinst masterized with Brasero, k3D and Image Burn work the same: perfectly on my COMPAQ 15 Netbook built in 2015, but UEFI compatible, and other similar PCs, and all not working on my a/m PCs running unter legacy BIOS.

I would settle for getting deactivacted at boot the speech synthetizer installer, that BTW doesn't work, and making the installer start and work in normal graphic or text mode, like other Debian descendant distributions I tried, i.e. Ubuntu and Mint, that never gave and give me any problem.

All a/m PCs have been assembled and mantained by me, and have always been perfectly working since year 2010 at my office. And all can still work fine for years to come, I suppose.

[Aki]

Hello,

Motherboard GIGABYTE GA-EP43-UD3L Rev. 1.1
Award Modular BIOS v6.00PG Version f9 dd. 04/22/2010
Socket LGA 775
Processor Intel Core 2 Quad Q9400 2,66 GHz x4 (pc1)
Processor Intel Core 2 Duo E7500 2,9 GHz x 2 (pc2 and pc3)
[..]

According to the user manual [1], at page 47 multiple types of USB devices can be configured:

First/Second/Third Boot Device
Specifies the boot order from the available devices. Use the up or down arrow key to select a
device and press <Enter> to accept. Options are: Floppy, LS120, Hard Disk, CDROM, ZIP,
USB-FDD, USB-ZIP, USB-CDROM, USB-HDD, Legacy LAN, Disabled.

I suppose the USB-HDD is the one you need, but you might try other options in the BIOS for boot configuration. It's worth checking this BIOS configuration, since it is an old BIOS.

---
[1] GA-EP43-UD3L/ GA-EP43-US3L - User's manual

[CapeGold]

[/quote] I suppose the USB-HDD is the one you need, [/quote]

Yep, that's it. Using this option all the distributions I tested (Ubuntu, Mint, Slackware) work. The USB flashpen are recognized, and all the gear work fine both in live mode of if you wanna install the OS on the pc. So I ask myself (1) what exactly the deprecated package Unebbotin changes in the netinst file for making the graphical install start and (2) is it possible to modify the grub configuration file in the .iso then saving the changes in a brand new .iso file of netinst asd using the new flashpen

[/quote] you might try other options in the BIOS for boot configuration. It's worth checking this BIOS configuration, since it is an old BIOS.[/quote]

I know, it's an old BIOS indeed, but why Debian's netinst ignores BIOS while other distributions simply work?

[Aki]

Hello,

[..] I ask myself (1) what exactly the deprecated package Unebbotin changes in the netinst file for making the graphical install start and (2) is it possible to modify the grub configuration file in the .iso then saving the changes in a brand new .iso file of netinst asd using the new flashpen

I have not explored this aspect so far as I am not particularly interested in it. In any case, the Debian installation guide clearly states that unetbootin should not be used with Debian, so why use it?

[..] but why Debian's netinst ignores BIOS while other distributions simply work?

I've tested few minutes ago the debian-12.6.0-amd64-netinst.iso in a VM with legacy boot: it starts perfectly fine and the first menu is fully usable.

Perhaps you are searching in the wrong direction.

I would suggest to explore issues in transferring the ISO image to the media or issue with the USB media itself.

You may also try installing using the Debian installer ISO images from previous Debian releases:

• https://cdimage.debian.org/mirror/cdimage/archive/

A video recording of the issue could be interesting to examine, anyway.

Hope this helps.

[CapeGold]

... the Debian installation guide clearly states that unetbootin should not be used with Debian, so why use it? ...

Simply because it's the very one way I found for getting Debian 12.6.0 installed on those three physical vintage machines.

... I've tested few minutes ago the debian-12.6.0-amd64-netinst.iso in a VM with legacy boot: it starts perfectly fine and the first menu is fully usable. ...

I did the same with VM under Oracle VM VirtualBox v7.0.20 on differente UEFI compatible machines, and all works fine.

... You may also try installing using the Debian installer ISO images from previous Debian releases: ...

Yep, it seems a good idea. I'll try it too.

And anyhow thanks a lot for your assistance

[CwF]

For legacy boot you can always create a system in a vm and image it directly to the storage in the target computer, and boot it, done. Of course using all native software, not Virtual Box.

If you play with many old computers, keep a copy of an image without a desktop, or essentially a completed netinst with no selections. It should be under a gig in size with ~700 packages. You can complete it using a copy as desired in a vm, or image it to the donor computer and complete it on that to experience the slowness. Extras like nvidia specific systems can be done like this. This is also a preferred way to setup, backup and upgrade off-line computers.

[CapeGold]

Hi CwF.

Thanks for your suggestions, I will keep it into due account.
Well, I have three old PCs that after some 14 years of honest service now lie inactive on my workbench. I'm just trying to to find a reasonable use for them, just for fun of course. All my oldies work fine under other Debian descendant distros, i.e. Ubuntu, LinuxMint and so on, but not under Debian, as I explained hereabove.
Yes, I know, their BIOS is by far too old for any productive utilization, since its last update has been done in 2010. I just wanna understand how to change the netinst iso so that the default boot procedure run by netinst will start the Grapic Install or at least Install menu option instead of the annoying and poorly working Speech Synthetizer one, avoinding the deprecated use of problematic third party's software.

That's all.

[CwF]

Thanks for your suggestions, I will keep it into due account.

Consider this - using a 'golden image' you can have a single copy of the OS that will run on all 'classic' computers and you pass it around to whatever you'd like to run that day. You can prepare this image to recognize the particular computer and have it configure appropriately. The notes for this 'how-to' are extensive and can be noted within the image itself.

I've never been one to distro hop. I have little interest in the 42 ways to do something. I choose and master one way, my preferred way, and evolve it into this master image. With this way I avoid the install, the laborious configuring, and the gotchas of needless variation. I have no need for any 'branded' software for cloning or backups, just the tidy qemu-img. I machine hop, with a master distro I know like the back of my hand.

Of course I have a few variations. Any of them can be morphed; renamed, re-domained, reconfigured. Typically whatever I'm using to grow, feeling out those 42 ways, will be scraped within a year - with all the important changes saved into a sister copy with none of the daily usage scars. Actually my daily is never up to date since it really doesn't matter - there are many archived copies if I need to backtrack, and typically 2 or more future copies yet to be sullied. A reminder from the forums this weeks - I will soon load up a few 11.8 images and upgrade them just in case.

My i386/i686 is the fattest distro I have. When we glance through its boot history we see a few dozen computers it has lived on. I do clean that up every so often, but leave a condensed record of the inflection points. Its apt history is seven years long now. Every 'new' system is within a half hour of being fully configured, usually using an amd64 skinnier cousin of similar age.

I looked at uefi a few years ago and did some testing. I can't recall, but my notes say it's all possible, and also the most blatant enshittification in all of PC history.

[Dude Guyman]

Edit: NVM, read more into the thread. What I was thinking of is not the issue.

[Enigma83]

@CapeGold: Do you have a spare, unused HDD? Or flash drive? If so then try installing Easy2Boot or Ventoy onto them. Then just copy over your iso as is and try to boot it. Neither are perfect, but you should no longer have a need for creating new install media every time you want to boot an ISO. I've had a lot of success with E2B in the past, very good for legacy booting various isos. Ventoy is more suited to UEFI booting, I have less experience with it but am using it more often because I recently acquired a laptop that is UEFI only.

[CapeGold]

I already tried Ventoy, it works fine on my UEFI compatible Compaq Notebook 15 PC, but not on my GIGABYTE EP43-UD3L units. The main menu appairs, but it's inactive, and the pc hangs up.
I will try Easy2Boot instead. Thanks a lot for your suggestions.

[Enigma83]

@CapeGold : I'm not really convinced that trying E2B or Ventoy will make your graphics corruption go away. If you created your boot media correctly then there shouldn't have been an issue. I'd look at the GRUB2 booting parameters and see if there's something graphics related that can be changed. The change would only last for as long as the installer is booted, it shouldn't pass on to the installed OS.

Or maybe Bookworm is just too new for your hardware. The oldest thing I've installed it on is an ultrabook laptop that released 5+ yrs ago, it works fine on that.

[Enigma83]

Thanks for your suggestions, I will keep it into due account.

Consider this - using a 'golden image' you can have a single copy of the OS that will run on all 'classic' computers and you pass it around to whatever you'd like to run that day. You can prepare this image to recognize the particular computer and have it configure appropriately. The notes for this 'how-to' are extensive and can be noted within the image itself.

I've never been one to distro hop. I have little interest in the 42 ways to do something. I choose and master one way, my preferred way, and evolve it into this master image. With this way I avoid the install, the laborious configuring, and the gotchas of needless variation. I have no need for any 'branded' software for cloning or backups, just the tidy qemu-img. I machine hop, with a master distro I know like the back of my hand.

Of course I have a few variations. Any of them can be morphed; renamed, re-domained, reconfigured. Typically whatever I'm using to grow, feeling out those 42 ways, will be scraped within a year - with all the important changes saved into a sister copy with none of the daily usage scars. Actually my daily is never up to date since it really doesn't matter - there are many archived copies if I need to backtrack, and typically 2 or more future copies yet to be sullied. A reminder from the forums this weeks - I will soon load up a few 11.8 images and upgrade them just in case.

My i386/i686 is the fattest distro I have. When we glance through its boot history we see a few dozen computers it has lived on. I do clean that up every so often, but leave a condensed record of the inflection points. Its apt history is seven years long now. Every 'new' system is within a half hour of being fully configured, usually using an amd64 skinnier cousin of similar age.

I looked at uefi a few years ago and did some testing. I can't recall, but my notes say it's all possible, and also the most blatant enshittification in all of PC history.

That's one of the best ideas I've heard in awhile.I can't count the # of times I've reinstalled various OSes. It's a pain in the *** to have to start from scratch every time and reconfigure everything. I get very meticulous in my setups, so it can take days or weeks to get back to a state of being usable as a daily driver. It gets old, which is part of why i moved away from distro hopping in favor of trying something stable and sticking with it.

I know you probably won't advise for Windows, since you may or may not use it (I still do, when needed), but how about Linux generally. What's your techniques for making these so called golden images?

[CwF]

What's your techniques for making these so called golden images?

Well,

The notes for this 'how-to' are extensive

There is a lot to it, nothing really complicated, just lots.

Once we understand what factors are dynamically enumerated at boot and what factors are rigid configurations we can walk through everything noting their nature. It should be quickly noted that fixed network, video, initramfs, etc can contain elements that won't migrate. Understanding why a vm can or cannot migrate would help, it's the same with bare metal. The chosen image can start as a vm or bare metal because within these restrictions there is no difference.

I suppose my eureka was a long history of imaging or mounting the disk from a broken computer to fix or save data. Once in Linux, passing a broken installation to vm resulting in me fixing it, and surprised me. But it shouldn't have. Over the years I've learned what matters and what doesn't, to some extent. Since then I go the other way, crafting the original in a vm and then writing it out to a disk, installing in a new machine, and boot. done. Much of my evolution is certainly documented right here in this forum. Most, if not all factors set in the original install can be changed. I've done many things I won't do again, but I force excess effort at least once, and write it down.

In addition to those details that would take a few pages, the tooling required is a working vm host and using qemu-img. Learning that is first. Searching for 'qemu-img' and 'virsh' should get pretty far.

I stopped with XP, and yes this works there too. In a similar way XP's ability to migrate (W2k also) far far exceeds even current linux but is castrated by registration. I'm sure few believe that. Starting with an nlite install that covers everything under the sun you expect to use, and understanding the 7 magic registration points and how they're scored, it is possible within a range of hardware that is seen prior to registration, to have a 'silver' image...Starting from now, maybe not.

We should not continue in this thread with this tangent. If at some point anyone tries this path then there will be many opportunities to open new threads on point. I'll be here.

[CapeGold]

@Enigma83 All the USB sticks I prepared for installation work fine on all my PCs excepted for the a/m GIGABYTE UP43-UD3L machines. These machines work fine under all the Debian descendant OSs I tried. It's just a technical curiosity, the time I spent on this issue is by far more valuable than the three problematic machines. And I'd like to know what exactly Unetbootin changes in the netinst iso file for getting it work on such machines. That's all folks!

[i386 ibm T4x]

i use debian 11 and by the name of me i use that labtop 32bit is mine can i use uefi hmmm im going to look that up a few secs idk tell me about it pls