Installation difference between ISO and live

[compis3]

I have installed the XFCE version of the live version and the ISO version of Debian 12 and notice differences in installed applications.

Debian-12.1.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso, SHA256-9168ff53d789537db4f5233e7dfa5e860519c44b68132b70805218f842b00041
Debian-live-12.1.0-amd64-xfce.iso, SHA256-979dc8a5cc170a9120f36c6de48ed7b86812a77579420992083ac7ac1723f462

The ISO install has unneeded apps like several games that does not exist on the live version. Why is there a difference in the installation of applications for the same version of the O.S. ?

[Dude Guyman]

I don't know why they are different, but they surely are, and it's NOT cool. The Live version contains a lot of junk the "net" versions don't have (and maybe a bit of vice versa) and if my memory serves me, it (Live DVD) took up about ~4 extra GB on my drive right after install for some unknown reason.

[pbear]

First, both installation methods use ISOs, so that's not a useful label. The netinst.iso (and related full DVD iso) is the standard installer, while the live iso is an alternate method and uses a different installer, called Calamares. Second, you have them backwards. The screenshot on the left is the desktop from the standard installer. From which I infer the one on the right is from the live iso. Third, the differences seems pretty minor, so not something I'd worry about (otoh, I only have XFCE in a test box, so doesn't affect me anyway). Fourth, as Aki mentioned in one your prior threads, the place to take up something like this is the live list.

[compis3]

The point is both represent Debian-12.1.0-amd64 and they have different applications installed. Why would the standard ISO have Games and the calameri installation have no games and a more concise amount of applications. It is a concern because I noticed the calamari version did not have "rsync" installed. viewtopic.php?t=156162
i would expect the completed installation of either to be identical.

[Aki]

Hello,

The point is both represent Debian-12.1.0-amd64 and they have different applications installed. Why would the standard ISO have Games and the calameri installation have no games and a more concise amount of applications. It is a concern because I noticed the calamari version did not have "rsync" installed. viewtopic.php?t=156162
i would expect the completed installation of either to be identical.

You can ask the Debian live mailing list how to open a bug report with the appropriate severity.

[pbear]

Life is full of small inconsistencies. Nothing for it but to press on as best we can. By the way, you seem to be using the label 'live' incorrectly in the other thread also. Checking a few different test boxes created with the standard installer, none have rsync by default (imho, apt list rsync is a simpler and more reliable test). Whereas my Cinnamon systems, installed from its live iso, do have rsync; Games on Menu also.

[vng2022]

Who said that installed Debian should be identical? There are dozens ways to install OS starting from basic system without desktop environment. Also developers while creating different ISOs may have different considerations as well.

[compis3]

The version says it should be identical ! Both the ISO and the Calmeri version have different applications for version 12.1.0 AMD XFCE and you are saying there are other versions ?

How many versions are there for 12.1.0 AMD64 XFCE ?

[steve_v]

The version says it should be identical !

The "version says" release 12.1, for amd64, including the XFCE desktop. Nothing more.

How many versions are there for 12.1.0 AMD64 XFCE ?

As many as there are potential combinations of available software, or as many as the respective teams decide to assemble? The live and installation images serve different purposes, so it follows that they include different applications.
As already explained, any differences between the live images and the defaults installed with tasksel/debian-installer are up to the debian-live team (and what they have decided to include in the space available), and the debian-live mailing list is the place to discuss them.

On the whole, you appear to be confusing monolithic single-vendor "operating system" with "GNU/Linux distribution". They are not the same.

I don't know why they are different, but they surely are, and it's NOT cool. The Live version contains a lot of junk the "net" versions don't have

The live images are just that - live images intended for evaluation. They include additional software to showcase what can be installed, and there is niether obligation nor expectation that a final installation (where the preferred media is the aptly-named installation images, as it always has been) will be identical.

If you lot can't handle choice, perhaps you should stick to "one size fits all" operating systems like Windows?

On rsync... If you want rsync, frickin' install rsync. It's not hard, and it will take you less time than opening threads to complain about it.

[compis3]

I am asking how many versions of Debian-12.1.0-amd64 XFCE! Your response is that there are so many versions?

What does Debian-12.1.0-amd64 XFCE represent if there are more than a single version ? Why put a version on the file ?

[pbear]

This is known as JAQing off (just asking questions). Debian is what it is. Use it or don't. They're not going to change the development model because you don't like how things are being done.

[steve_v]

What does Debian-12.1.0-amd64 XFCE represent if there are more than a single version ?

Like I said: a distribution of Debian, current as of version 12.1, compiled for the amd64 architecture, and including the XFCE4 desktop environment.
All the image filename implies is that it contains some version of XFCE, what software is or isn't included beyond that is irrelevant and subject to space limitations of the target media and the whims of whoever built that image.

This is known as JAQing off (just asking questions). Debian is what it is. Use it or don't.

Indeed. OP has a lengthy history of complaining, demanding "official" versions of this that and the next thing, and waving filenames and checksums around as if they have some profound meaning nobody else cares about.

[compis3]

I don't understand your explanation. I identify 2 versions a ISO and live version. I have stated the SHA256 hash and specific file and version.

Give an example of these other versions for
Debian-12.1.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso,
Debian-live-12.1.0-amd64-xfce.iso

[arzgi]

I don't understand your explanation. I identify 2 versions a ISO and live version. I have stated the SHA256 hash and specific file and version.

Give an example of these other versions for
Debian-12.1.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso,
Debian-live-12.1.0-amd64-xfce.iso

The first installer is DVD, which includes for example many DEs, installation disk without live boot. The second boots to live Debian session using Xfce.

Seems you are trying to reinvent wheel. Off course the hashes are different, because isos are different.

[compis3]

Both are AMD64 XFCE for Debian 12.1 using XFCE the hashes are different because they are different which is obvious. Since both are the same operating system Debian 12.1 why do 2 different versions of the same operating system and desktop XFCE exist ?

Here is an example the Debian-12.1.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso has parental controls but the live version when installed does not ?
Debian-12.1.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso asks for a root password but the live install does not.

[steve_v]

Since both are the same operating system Debian 12.1 why do 2 different versions of the same operating system and desktop XFCE exist ?

* Because Debian is not an "operating system", it's a GNU/Linux distribution. There are over 70,000 packages in the distribution, and any valid combination of those is just as much "Debian 12.1" as any CD or DVD image you might care to mention.
* Because the images serve different purposes, hence the "live" in one of the filenames.
* Because they can, and variety is a fine thing.

If you don't like the package selection included on a particular disc image, take it up with the debian-cd or debian-live teams on the mailing lists. Frankly I expect they'll probably ignore your prattling too.

[compis3]

Debian is not an operating systems ? I thought it was a Linux operating system ?

Why is there 2 versions of Debian 12.1 ? for XFCE instead of one ? you claim there are 70 000 packages, but I am not speaking about packages.

[steve_v]

Debian is not an operating systems ? I thought it was a Linux operating system ?

Linux is an operating system. Debian is a GNU/Linux distribution, encompassing all the software in the official repositories.
What you are referring to is the default package selection on a particular disc image, which is neither.

Why is there 2 versions of Debian 12.1 ? for XFCE instead of one ?

Because there are, because it's up to the respective teams to decide what subset of available packages are included on a given disc image, and because it doesn't matter in the slightest since you are free to install or remove whatever you like whenever you like, or even create your own custom install disc.

Now I'm done with this stupid argument. Again and for the umpteenth time: If you don't like that the live disc is different from the install disc, go troll the debian-live team on the mailing list. Otherwise, suck it up and use whatever install media you do like.
If you must have "official" Debian 12.1 and you object to components being "load[ed] over the internet", you're going to be downloading and checksumming some 20+ DVD images with jigdo. Have fun.

[compis3]

My question is why are there 2 different versions for the same version? In this instance and no other Debian 12.1,XFCE, amd64 bit

Why not eliminate one of the versions ?

I only see two versions and when I previously asked for other versions specific to what I requested none was presented. Present any other 12.1 XFCE 64 bit versions as examples/

[compis3]

Debian is not an operating systems ? I thought it was a Linux operating system ?

Linux is an operating system. Debian is a GNU/Linux distribution, encompassing all the software in the official repositories.
What you are referring to is the default package selection on a particular disc image, which is neither.

Why is there 2 versions of Debian 12.1 ? for XFCE instead of one ?

Because there are, because it's up to the respective teams to decide what subset of available packages are included on a given disc image, and because it doesn't matter in the slightest since you are free to install or remove whatever you like whenever you like, or even create your own custom install disc.

Now I'm done with this stupid argument. Again and for the umpteenth time: If you don't like that the live disc is different from the install disc, go troll the debian-live team on the mailing list. Otherwise, suck it up and use whatever install media you do like.
If you must have "official" Debian 12.1 and you object to components being "load[ed] over the internet", you're going to be downloading and checksumming some 20+ DVD images with jigdo. Have fun.

To answer your question Debian is an Operating system. See the main web page!!!

https://www.debian.org/